It's really not hard to install. You shouldn't need to do anything to the timing, although there's a trigger set screw that may need adjustment to let the sear move far enough to grab the hammer right. That was what happened with mine. Basically, here's what you do.
Unscrew the front and rear gripframe screws, slowly. Do the back one first, and set aside the end cap for the hammer tube. When you separate the frame from the body, have the gun oriented right-side-up, and do it slowly so you see how and where the timing rod fits. Once the timing rod is clear of the body, you can set the body aside.
Take off the grip panels from the stock frame, and from the .45 frame if it came with them. You'll probably need to transfer the sear spring (and definitely the brass cap on top of it) to the .45 frame. They fit in the same place. Now, here's decision point 1: Your sear spring MAY be strong enough to cycle the .45 frame on its own, but it may not (mine wasn't, but it was a ProTouch). You can choose to try it and see; you can look for a single, stronger spring (e-mail Shag from the POG and ask him about that); or you can install a second spring into a different position (more on that in a sec).
You also need to transfer the timing rod over. Remove it from its position on the stock frame and put it in the same spot on the .45 frame. MAKE SURE THE SAFETY'S ON...IT'LL HELP. Now, if you've got the rod in place and the sear spring in place, you can put the gun back together.
Have your two gripframe screws, your end cap, the body and the gripframe easily accessible. Put the body and the gripframe together in the same way you took them apart. Make sure the timing rod fits in the same exact place in the 4-way slot that it was when you took it apart. Screw in the front gripframe screw, then get the end cap in back and screw in the back screw. If it all physically fits together correctly, then you've done something right. :)
Now, the fun part. Gas up the gun. If the ram suddenly flies back and sticks, your timing rod's misplaced. Make sure the trigger's forward, the safety's engaged, and look at the 4-way slot until you understand how it's supposed to work (remember, this 4-way works opposite of a Cocker's...the forward position is the "at-rest" one). Once you've figured it out, put it together again.
If it gasses up normally, try single-shot cycling. If the sear catches consistently, try some rapid shots. If it still works right, you've got it. If the sear isn't consistently catching, your springing may be too weak, or you may need to give the trigger a bit more forward movement. Decision point 2: You need to guess which adjustment to make. I'd experiment with springs first, then if it still isn't working, do the trigger adjustment.
Now, I mentioned a second spring. That second spring would go in a hole in the underside of the body, above the front part of the sear (in front of the pivot point). I *think* Cocker trigger springs work in there. Ballpoint pen springs probably do, too. One smart thing to do is get an end loop of that spring to "wrap" onto that front part of the sear, because the spring can slip off it and you'll have cycling problems. As far as tension goes, try it with a "full power" spring, something harder than you'd normally like, and see if the gun cycles consistently then. If it doesn't, then you'll want to unscrew that little screw in the top of the gripframe that stops the trigger's forward play. Go in small increments...once the sear catches consistently, you should leave it. If the gun DOES cycle consistently after putting in the stronger springing, then you can start to play with clipping the trigger spring (the forward spring) bit by bit until you like it.
It may sound like a lot to do, but it's really easy and can be done in 5 minutes if your springing is already figured out. Craig helped me put mine on at Splat-1, and it took under 15 minutes, and I ran into every one of the possible problems I noted here.
This info came in response to a post about getting the velocity down on a back-bottle Palmer gun.
1. Loosen the compression nut closest to the front of the gun.
2. Remove both side screws that hold the back cap in.
3. Remove the rear grip frame screw
The hammer, spring, pin, gas tube w/nuts and back cap should slide out.
(3 screws and a compression nut and that's it)
You can also remove the front frame screw and drop the frame down to get it out of the way. This in no way will change your timing. (leave the grips on)
Note: Use new allen wrenches for the little screws because they should be tight. The velocity should be set to 200-220 fps with the screw backed out all of the way. The flat (ground) end of the spring goes inside of the hammer. The cut end goes into the velocity cap along with the guide pin.
Assemble in reverse.
Hope this helps :) - CP
This is something that Thomas Abe posted on the POG after "Panzer1" asked if anyone had tried using Nelson springs in Palmer products.
"I've been using Nelson hammer kits with my Typhoons since '97. Personally, I think they help the gun to cycle smoother by lowering the cocking pressure. The downside is that you lose efficiency. I can't recall the exact reason, but both Glenn and Craig have tested Nelson hammer setups, and both found them to result in a loss of efficiency. You should try a lighter spring. [Note: Panzer1 said he used a green spring] Even a yellow spring can be too much on some guns. If you use a hammer spring that's too strong, you will increase the valve dwell and ruin your shot count. As long as your gun was shooting the right velocity before the switch, you should lighten the hammer spring until you get the same velocity. My AKA LP converted 'phoon needed a green hammer spring to get decent velocities due to the harder valve spring used with the Tornado valve. But my Classic gets by with an old OTP spring (softer than the yellow spring and only about 2/3 the length). Needless to say, I run the Classic with a really low output from the Rock."
As for me, I haven't tried this but might see if it's a possibility with a Blazer, just out of curiousity.
As always, some commentary and history first...
The Blazer was intended to mostly replace the Typhoon. This has been a stated fact, although I can't help but wonder if it was really meant to be that way. I've heard that Typhoon sales went up after the Blazer was released, presumably because of the added exposure that PPS got, and as a corollary reaction to "That Blazer's ugly, but I like the look of the Typhoon." And for some time, there's been a question of which is better? What are the relative strengths and weaknesses? Is there a performance difference based in the price? As these questions came to light, and as more people got their hands on Blazers, the response wasn't always positive. The first Blazer trigger I ever pulled (it was in a box, in a storage shed, waiting to be awarded to someone) was so heavy compared to the Pro-Touch Typhoon I then owned that I thought, "Oh well, I'll just stick with what I've got." And that's the reputation that in the greater paintball community has carried to very recently, and still comes around. Anyway, enough of that.
BLAZER |
TYPHOON |
|
| Cosmetics | Okay, so the Blazer is not exactly a handsome gun out of the box. Flat-black anno and bare brass aren't much to look at compared to the Typhoon's matte nickel finish. You can, however, do more to make the Blazer truly custom in finish, however, with nickel plating, color anno and body polishing. The body shape isn't exactly elegant, but if pretty matters to you, there are things that can be done. | The matte nickel finish on the Typhoon is just plain fine. You can keep your tiger nickel, your splash nickel, your etched and polished splats. I just like the original real deal. As long as the grip frame isn't chipped up, probably the only real weakness to the Phoon's looks. |
| Weight | Baby, you're the greatest! OK, it's not THE lightest on the market, but compared to the Cockers I've used in my time, never mind my Nasty Phoon, I think the weight of the Blazer is about ideal for a paintgun. | The Typhoon isn't the brick of brass that some perceive it to be. Granted, slap an Apoc on it and it's a little over the top, but the difference is that the Phoon is relatively heavy for it's size. But it's not onerous. |
| Design | The Blazer design is an evolved Typhoon design. Period. Same parts, same concept of operation, but improved execution. The benefits are in the grip frame (easy grip replacement, bottomline attachment) and the gas transfer (I THINK that the air channels versus the air hoses make the pnuematic system a bit quicker to react, but can't prove it). Deficits? Ummm....the bolt pin/cocking block interface is a little weak. Having spares on hand can save a game day, but you have to break it before you can get it for free. Other than that, about the only thing is that you can't put a Rock knob on it. | The design is classic. Period. Compared to its bastard cousin the Autococker (^_-), it's a miracle of packaging. But where it lacks RELATIVE TO THE BLAZER is in the gripframe. That great pivot trigger setup means you have to have a bracket to mount any kind of bottomline attachment. That bracket makes the grips wider, and can flex when under pressure. It may not be a structural issue, but it drove me nuts. The fixed barrel is generally fine, but every Phoon owner has at least one moment of "oh crap, I hope that didn't scratch the barrel" during ownership. Other than that, the bolt takes a hair longer to pull, and the hoses can blow. But the bolt is quicker to reinstall and you can use a Rock knob. |
| Price | Blazer's less expensive. Performance option for performance option, the Blazer will always be less expensive. Where you find the Blazer catching and surpassing the Typhoon in per-gun cost is the area of cosmetics. Fancy anodizing ramps the Blazer cost up quickly, possibly hitting $300 for three-color anno with full nickel highlights, making a bone-stock Blazer with full cosmetics more expensive than almost any single-barrel non-Classic Typhoon. | Yeah, on paper the Typhoon looks expensive "for what you get". And occasionally the price can be a bit surprising. I'm not going to sing the refrain about upgrades and comparing it to Cockers; the simple explanation is that the Typhoon's like a classic car. Maybe not the fastest, or the flashiest, or the most modern, but those who value the style, finish, and handmade touch don't care. We know what we like, and are willing to take any downsides in stride. |
| Aftermarket
(I'm leaving electro-conversions out on purpose) |
Clear winner, if you want to experiment. You can play with barrels, grips, secondary regs, and some parts (like "low pressure chambers"). The upside is there's not a lot of junk out there to sift through. The downside is that you're not really going to see much performance difference between parts, unless you're doing dumb stuff like trying All-Star in bigbore barrels. | The Typhoon really doesn't have much to do here. AKA is about the only manufacturer that has done any aftermarket parts for the Typhoon, and they haven't really pursued that market (because there's not much market to speak of). Basically, a motorized hopper and good propellant source are all that's called for, and that's it. |
Is there a winner? Well, sort of,
IMO. As I've said, for the new Palmer owner, the Blazer is
the ideal choice. I just think it's generally easier for
most users, who might not like the UMB or the weight, or the lack
of "customizability". This is not to denigrate
Phoon owners, though...most Typhoon owners are more
discriminating towards high-quality hardware and are generally
skeptical of hype. Any comments?
Post them at http://www.paintmagazine.com/forum/palmer/index.html.
A little commentary first...when the Blazer was first introduced, as well as all the way through the design phase, CO2 was continually the primary propellant being used for the wide majority of players, including the Palmers themselves. The Blazer followed the strong tradition of PPS guns being CO2-oriented, and yielding very high efficiency. So, when introduced, 650psi operating pressures were not the scandalous oversights they seem to be today, and 650psi was in the ideal range for use with unregged CO2. By comparison, '97 Cockers, with the enlarged valve chamber (the beginning of the LP tuning craze), no longer would operate well on unregged CO2, meaning that some less-than-scrupulous shops could make some extra cash selling primary regs instead of setting up the Cockers properly with the included WGP inline regs. But, times and technology change, and so do consumer demands, so in order to stay abreast of the market, PPS made a dimensional change to the Blazer that allowed a lowering of the operating pressure. The visual cue is the location of the sear pin. Older Blazers had a single hole where the sear pin passed through the body, but the 400psi modifications entailed moving the sear back to increase the hammer stroke (according to Thomas Abe), hence the new location of the sear pin.
So, if your Blazer has two small holes in the lower body, one with a screw through it and one without, then you have a 400psi Blazer. If you don't like having the empty hole, Craig Palmer says a 8-32x1/4 screw can be used to plug it.
Thomas Abe: With a Typhoon or Blazer, you should be able to get 800 to 900 shots from a 68ci 3000psi system. I got at least 900 shots every time I used my old Max-Flow on my Blazer. Now that I'm using a 4500psi system, I get at least 1600 shots. But since I only shoot about 600 rounds in a day, I don't usually keep track.
DP: The consensus seems to be 10 shots per cubic inch (at 3000 psi) and that's consistent with my experience.
Me: Yeah, that sounds about like what I've seen.
Someone asked the question, "How long is a Blazer?" Here's my answer:
It depends, naturally, on the length of the barrel, but according to my tape measure, my Blazer with a 12" barrel measures out to almost precisely 17". Body length (not including ASA) is 7", and 7.5" including ASA. The barrel slides 2" into the gun body.
Use the following as a rule of thumb to get overall length.
7"+(length of barrel)-2"=overall length from the aft end of the velocity adjuster to the tip of he barrel.
Which means, a Blazer with one of PPS's 8" "Cracker Barrels" will be shorter than your buddy's 14" Boomstick barrel by itself.
OK, so Palmer Blazers "only" come with brass barrels. And "no one" makes barrels for Blazers, so Blazers must suck. Right? Wrong. Here's a partial list of barrels that I have heard of being made or modified to fit the Blazer. And while I'm here...why isn't Lapco making Autospirits for Blazers? That's about the only "aftermarket" barrel I'd buy for it (well, maybe a 10" Dye aluminum), and obviously Colin's got the tooling for the thing, since he's done Bigshots. I just don't get it.
Palmer |
Dye Boomstick |
| Lapco Autospirit |
Dye Stainless |
| Lapco Bigshot |
BOA Express |
| Smart Parts | ANY barrel can be machined to fit a Blazer!!! |
Click here to learn about the best Typhoon accessory ever.
| Sheridan | 111 | |
| Stroker | 111 | |
| Typhoon | 112 | |
| Blazer | 112 | |
| Blazer (Delrin) | 015 | |
| Standard CO2 Bottle | 015 | |
| All o-rings (except the 015) should be
70-durometer polyurethane. 015 should be 90-durometer polyurethane. Use petroleum based oils for longer life. Palmer oil is a high grade petroleum based air tool oil. You can get gallons of it at any industrial supply warehouse. Air tool oil doesn't bubble and or freeze up. You can even use motor oil if your in a bind. Most non petroleum oils can be solvents. (I know, I thought it was the other way around as well...but this is straight from and confirmed by C.P.) |
||
| Vertical-bottle Typhoon | 3/8-24 x 1/4 |
| Back-bottle Typhoon | 8-32 x 1/2 |
| Standard Blazer | 3/8-24 x 1/4 |
| Back-bottle Blazer | 10-32 x 1/2 |
Rather than make a table for this, I'm going to seriously hedge and say:
Feed your Palmer gun whatever pressure it takes to shoot the desired FPS. For most Typhoons/Hurricanes/earlier Blazers, 550-650psi is average, but if it's still dropping off, bump it up. Recent Blazers run around 400psi. Again, feed it what it wants (and then report back to us for averaging ^_^)
Palmer’s freely admits that the Blazer trigger pull is heavy, but on the other hand it is very reliable and hard to short-stroke. Concentration on reliability is the main concern at Palmer's. Most Blazers tend to break in and get a little lighter during use. PPS also admits that their trigger jobs are not worth the $$, but "we have to charge for the time we spend to get it a LITTLE lighter." The best investment for the Blazer trigger is a two-finger shoe. They make a big difference. Remember that every part effects every other part. Try to get the marker working with lowest automation reg. pressure, and velocity setting as possible. This may help with trigger smoothness.
From Clint (sorry, Clint) by way of RamboPreacher...
Glenn Palmer says that it is most important (for accuracy) to match the barrel to the output of the valve.
Really, this is another way of saying you need a good paint to bore fit. Not too tight, and not too loose. A paintball will deflect radially (get bigger) when pressure is applied by compressed gas. The pressure output of the valve rises, peaks and then falls. It is not a digital on/off device. If the valve output pressure rises, peaks and falls, then the paintball diameter will rise, peak and fall. This makes it impossible to get a good paint to bore fit with a straight-profile (constant I.D.) barrel.
A good example of this is when you get ball breaks halfway down the barrel with a high-pressure gun and a straight profile barrel. Enter the elliptical profile barrel. The inside diameter of an elliptical-profile barrel is tight at the breech, loose down the middle, and tight at the muzzle. Sound familiar?
The elliptical-profile barrel allows a good fit of the paintball to the barrel all the way down its length. The vented barrels are tight all the way through the venting, so the bulge is closer to the breech of the barrel. I believe this only applies to high/medium pressure guns like the Typhoon. It would seem that the benefit of elliptical honing diminishes with low-pressure guns that don't deform the paintball as much. With low-pressure guns, a properly fitted straight-profile barrel is all that is required to achieve the same quality of paint to bore fit.
The goal of the hone/shoot/rehone process was to get the balls to come out with no spin. It follows that a good paint to bore fit will produce less spin than a bad one. Spin detracts from accuracy at long ranges, as the paintball slows down, the spin becomes the dominant force. This produces the "hook" shots you get out of lesser guns. A paintball with no spin acts like a "knuckleball" in baseball, causes it to wiggle back and forth, up and down along its path. This wiggling will keep the ball close to the initial path, at all ranges. A spinning ball will be closer to the path at close ranges and further from the path at long ranges.